At 300 yards, it has 19 percent more energy than the .300 Win. Hard to find here in Canada. Jordan Sillars Feb 3, 2021. They also balance rather far forward due to the very heavy breechblock extension that looks like an operating rod under the barrel. I wonder if some army brass had a 32-20 lever action rifle and thought that a semi auto rifle in 30 caliber would be good for combat? Winchester BismuthReview: Your Complete Guide, Best Hunting Rifle Slings Ultimate Guide [2023], 25-06 vs 30-06 Springfield Review & Comparison, 6.5 Grendel vs 300 Blackout Review & Comparison, 11 Reasons The Leupold VX-6HD Is An Outstanding Hunting Scope, 450 Bushmaster vs 45-70 Review & Comparison, 28 Nosler vs 300 Win Mag Review & Comparison, Best 22 Hornet Ammo For Hunting Coyotes, Bobcats, & Other Varmints, 15 Best African Hunting Books For When Youre Dreaming Of Being On Safari[2023], Best 350 Legend Ammo For Hunting Deer, Hogs, Bear, & Other Game, Best 6.8 Western Rifles for Hunting Ultimate Guide [2023]. In rifle cartridges, we usually take the safe route and .30-caliber has emerged as the American shooters choice. Winchester and Hornady both offer 200-grain loads at 2475 f.p.s. This is a bolt action rifle with a 5round internal magazine and sports a 22 blued steel barrel with visible rif WINCHESTER 1873 MUSKET 44-40 30. Bottom line? and the .30-30 with 781 ft. lbs. Ruger's fine New Model Blackhawk extends the .30 Carbine cartridge's versatility. 351 Winchester Self/ Loading 12 HRN390552 19 LEE90004 15 LY7738055 19 RCBS09219 5 RED11005 Each round was a straight-walled, semi-rimmed cartridge firing a round-nosed bullet at modest pressure, just like the .30 Carbine. Check out GunBroker. 26" barrels with F A near flawless vintage Voere Nato Imperial control round feed Mauser bolt action made in Austria. Rifle Ammunition For Sale In Bulk Quantity - Outdoor Limited Sadly, my favorite bullet diameter, the .35 caliber, doesnt even rate a blip on the American shooters radar screen. This new model featured two new cartridges, the .350 Rem. As such, the following is for comparative information purposes only and should not be used to make precise predictions of the trajectory, performance, or true ballistics of any particular .30 M1 Carbine or .30-30 Winchester rounds for hunting, target shooting, plinking, or any other usage. M44/Carbine; Mini-14 Type; Model 77; RWS Rifles; S Misc Rifles; Saiga Rifles. It was even used in Africa. the Henry's seem to be very solid and the action is danged smooth. . If you match the bullet to the game, this is one of the all-time great hunting cartridges. This means I will earn a small commission (at no extra cost to you) if you make a purchase. If that's what floats your boat. The .35 Rem. Winchester took the lessons learned from the Model 1905 in stride and incorporated some changes into the new Winchester Model 1907 rifle and the accompanying .351 Winchester Self-Loading (.351 WSL) cartridge they released a few years later. First year gun, manufactured in 1939, Pre-WWII. THE USUAL CRACKS IN THE FORE END. This is an Oviedo 1916 Spanish mauser chambered in .308 Winchester. It is built on an aluminum- NO NYC, CT buyers please send us FFL or State Permit. The Winchester 351 self-loading rifle is. That version is in some dispute, with evidence that Whelen himself developed the cartridge or at least worked with Howe on its development. The .25 Rem., .30 Rem. This cartridge was different from, but looked similar to, standard .22 Long and .22 Long Rifle cartridges. Military snipers wont be adopting either cartridge any time soon, but both enjoy a dedicated following of hunters who appreciate a medium-power option that can get the job done out to 250 yards. Unfortunately for Winchester, the Model 10 was not a good seller and the company only produced about 20,000 produced before dropping it from production in 1936. Still, I hope its clear how closely these cartridges stack up. This helps support the blog and allows me to continue to create free content thats useful to hunters like yourself. round barrel worn finish and cracked butt plate please view pictures for condition. in its NoslerCustom line with a 225-grain Partition bullet at 2550 f.p.s. My pick by far is the 30 carbine for all the previous listed reasons. According to a recent Federal Emergency Management Agency report, fewer people are "prepping" today compared to previous years. Reply. And with Winchester, Ruger, Mossberg and other companies making bolt action rifle in 350 Legend and 450 Bushmaster, maybe they could make a run of rifles in 351 WSL and 401 WSL too., with 5 and 10 round magazines. For hunting, it is considered a small-to-medium-game cartridge. Just bought the 22 sl. In 1968 the 600 Magnum was replaced by the Model 660 Magnum, which featured a 20-inch barrel, but it was never a big seller, and Remington dropped the rifles. While the American mainstream wont accept the .35, they are not unloved. During the early 1900s, the folks atWinchester learned that their main competitor, Remington, was working on a centerfire autoloading rifle suitable for hunting big game. That suggests the difference, at least in part, is due to the bullet. I have a .356 Win. A well known gun writer implied that had the M1 carbine been chambered for the 351 cartridge origianlly it would have been a far better battle rifle. Versatility However, Winchester experienced great difficulty in the development of their autoloading rifle and the unique calibers designed for it. These were theWinchester Self-Loading (WSL) rounds, including .32 WSL, .35 WSL, .351 WSL, and .401 WSL. The .30 Carbine was developed from the .32 Winchester Self-Loading used in an early semi-auto sporting rifle. McPherson. Try Buffalo arms in Idaho for brass and bullets for reloading. . Folks tend to duck when they hear the slide action put into play!! 94 1946 excellent condition. Winchester 1907 I believe was made in 1908 semi automatic 351 caliber has a couple of clips with it. were to go head to head with the .25-35 Win.,. The first 100,000 cartridges manufactured were headstamped ".30 SL" (for "self-loading"). When we pitted the 30 Carbine vs 5.56, the 5.56 won 7/10 categories and tied in two, thanks to its low recoil and high accuracy capabilities. [2], While a few gun writers in the 1960s criticized the .351 SL for being inadequate as a deer hunting round, and the round's power has sometimes been compared to a .357 Magnum carbine load, the .351 SL's killing power falls somewhere between the .30-30 Winchester and the .35 Remington. Even though Winchester developed a round suitable for straight blowback actions, the rifle they eventually submitted designed by William Roemer and Fred Humeston, and based on the work done by convict David Marshall Williams was a gas-operated, locked breech design. . And Barnes makes a 200-grain TSX bullet designed for this cartridge that, when handloaded to 2850 f.p.s., allows the .350 Rem. Accuracy was always regarded as fair at best from Model 07 carbines. Gun #: 943226118 . Deadshot Boxed Combo Shooting Bag - Unfilled. When Winchester designed 350 Legend, we engineered all of the bullets from scratch to be optimized for the new cartridge. However, as a bottleneck cartridge, the .30-30 has a slight advantage at longer ranges. One would think the 32WSL, 35 WSL, 351 WSL and 401 WSL would still be in use today. the 32 was the hardest one to come up with, There are a lot of 351 out there and some very nice ones, Thanks for this article and the information in it. all were more powerful-and may have been excellent hunting cartridges-but they are gone; rejected by the shooting public and banished to the junk heap of obsolescence. Barnes has a Vor-TX load with a 180-grain TSX bullet and a muzzle velocity of 2900 f.p.s. hit the market in 1895 paired with Winchester's now . pushes a 200-grain bullet to just more than 2000 f.p.s. spent to get the military issue version of the carbine will be money well spent. But unfortunately, only rifles made for these cartridges was Winchester, no one else chambered them, how come? The .32 Self-Loading fired a 165 grain bullet at 1,390 feet per second (708 ft-lbs of energy) and the .35 Self-Loading fired a 180 grain bullet at 1,390 feet per second (772 ft-lbs of energy). Hornadys LEVERevolution pushes the performance up a notch with a 200-grain pointed bullet at 2225 f.p.s. Shaw will make a rifle, as will any other custom, or semi-custom, riflemaker. The 32 WSL fired a 165 gr SP at 1390 fps, this duplicated the 32-40 ballistics, the 32-40 was considered good for deer. The .30 Carbine cartridge was developed by Winchester and is basically a rimless .30 caliber (7.62mm) version of the much older .32 Winchester Self-Loading cartridge of 1906 introduced for the Winchester Model 1905 rifle. The Legend has more trouble fighting wind and gravity. It feels like you get an initial kick when the gun goes off, which is then followed immediately by even harder hit when the heavy movable actions parts slam to the rear of the rifle. .243 Winchester vs .30 M1 Carbine Ammo Comparison - Ballistics Info and .32 Rem. Own and shoot both. Sure a .351 would have been better, but weight savings was a HUGE priority for the design of the M1 Carbine. They cant ride the love-it-or-hate-it controversy of the 6.5mm calibers. During WW2, when army brass asked Winchester to make up a light, handy rifle to replace 1911 pistols, Winchester wanted to use either the 351 WSL or 32 WSL, but army brass wanted a 30 caliber. The muzzle velocity was stated to be 1850 fps and the muzzle energy 1370 ft. lbs. (For context, Federals highest-BC 6.5 Creedmoor clocks in at .607.). while finding .30 carbine ammo can be a challenge at times, finding adequate quantities of .351 SL would seem an impossible task. The 1907 is designed with a short barrel, and completely . The quest for an acceptable .35 has inspired such impotent wastes as the .35 Winchester Self Loader, once labeled a candidate for the title: Worlds Most Useless Center-Fire Rifle Cartridge.. Federal does not market any of their .350 Legend options as elk cartridges. Our website lists special deals on 9mm Ammo, 10mm Ammo, 45-70 Ammo, 6.5 Creedmoor ammo, 300 Blackout Ammo, 10mm Ammo, 5.56 Ammo, Underwood Ammo, Buffalo Bore Ammo and more special deals on bulk ammo. That seems to happen a bunch to the rifles that had an active life! Plainfield Machine produced M1 carbines from 1960 to 1977, when they were bought out by Iver Johnson Corp, who has manufactured them at least until a 50th anniversary model in 1993. I have a 32 sl, 2 x 35 sl,351 and a 401. WINCHESTER 07 351 SL 5RD Magazine; ORIGIN USA CALIBER .351 SL WEIGHT 7.75 LBS. . Equipped with 10 round magazine to go along with a slightly beefed up forened and buttstock to resist cracking, many Model 1907 semi-auto rifles were acquired by many police departments to serve alongside the Thompson submachine gun in .45 ACP in an effort to give their officers more firepower. Finally, they are on the heavy side at 8.5 pounds. The Plainfield Machine Company (later taken over by Iver Johnson's Arms) sold a sporting rifle copy of the M1 carbine chambered for this cartridge but only about 500 were made. Would certainly make things easier, from a tooling standpoint. The 401 WSL would seem to have been a good choice for a large caliber AR 15, but they came out with the 450 Bushmaster instead. and the .32 Win. Shootability But the military has hundreds of millions of 30-06 ammo from WW1, and didnt want a new caliber. is still not burning up the sales records, so maybe ahead of its time is the wrong description. Still, the .30 Carbine is a round that has taken considerable criticism for its lack of performance, so its worthwhile to take a look at exactly how it does in comparison to other rounds used for the same purpose: Here we see pretty much exactly what wed expect: A round that starts out quite admirably thanks to its goodvelocity and energy, but which tends to underperform at range due to its dumpy ballistic coefficient. I have quite a bit of money into these guns now but I have one of each. GUNS Magazine Winchester Model 1907 - GUNS Magazine Other handguns chambered for this cartridge include the Thompson-Center Contender. Since the sights on Model 1907's consisted of a blade front with open rear, its practical range was about 150 yards. In 1944, Smith & Wesson developed a hand-ejector revolver to fire .30 Carbine. You can never lead if you always follow; the other cartridges were designed to chase Winchesters success, while the .35 Rem. Classic Police Self-Loaders: Model 8 Versus Model 1907 Dear Socialists: I have no money for you. Among Federals offerings, the highest BC for a .350 Legend is .259 while the highest BC for a .30-30 is .313. Modern Historical Personal Defense Weapon Calibers 006: The .30 M1 Carbine WINCHESTER 30-30 M#94. Note: some of the links below are affiliate links. up to 0.358 inches and dubbed it the poor mans magnum.. The .30-30 offers more power with certain loads, better long-range performance, and soft recoil. From my collection Winchester 1894. Upon its release, the Legend was marketed as a light-recoiling cartridge, and the .30-30 is also well-known as a good option for the recoil-sensitive. & scope has rust alon WINCHESTER 21 12GA 30 F/M. Save your pennies and hold out for the M1 Carbinethen save your pennies and start stocking away ammo and magazines. Army Ordnance Major Rene Studler persuaded Winchester that the Winchester M2 .30-06 rifle, a design started by Ed Browning and perfected by Winchester engineers including Marshall "Carbine" Williams, could be scaled down for the .30 Carbine cartridge. The Model 1907 enjoyed a long production run of over 51 years and Winchester finally stopped manufacturing it in 1958. Neither Winchester cartridge was truly suitable for anything larger than small deer, and that might have been pushing it. The .350 Rem. When we pitted the 30 Carbine vs 5.56, the 5.56 won 7/10 categories and tied in two, thanks to its low recoil and high accuracy capabilities. This is the Winchester model 1906 .22 LR pump action 20 in. Winchester 94 .30-30 or Henry .30-30? | Firearms Talk This gun has a story. True .30 M1 Carbine and .30-30 Winchester ballistics information can vary widely from the displayed information, and it is important to understand that the particular characteristics of a given round can make a substantive difference in its true performance. sam be yourself net worth; used robalo boats for sale by owner; nolin lake ponderosa homes for sale; neville staple wife; university of miami pay grade scale c111 Re: Question for the experts: M1 Carbine vs. Winchester .351. Auction (19) If we compare the .300 Win. The Remington Model 600 Magnum rifle, along with the cartridge it birthed, was just such a product. As many hunters know, the Remington Model 600 carbine, which was introduced in 1964, was one of the first short, light, bolt-action rifles to find success with deer hunters. If youd like to read some of the other posts my father has written for this blog, visit the links below: The .219 Zipper: A Good Cartridge That Didnt Quite Pan Out, One Mans Attempt At Explaining Hunting To Non-Hunters, 405 Winchester: Roosevelts Medicine Gun For Lions. A blowback action in the most basic autoloading action. .351 Winchester Self-Loading - Wikipedia But they are so few in number that no general conclusion can be drawn from them. An experimental Thompson submachine gun was also made to fire .351 SL in 1919 but was never produced commercially. When the 357 Magnum revolvers came out, hunters used it to take an assortment of big and dangerous game. Hornady Custom: 2018 fps. What is the going price of an original box of 351 ammo. This makes sense: the Legend was developed specifically for use in Midwestern whitetail states that require straight-wall cases. Posted February 22, 2017 in Ammunition, AR-15, Daily News, Guns & Gear, Other Gear & Gadgets, Rifles by Nathaniel F with 123 CommentsTags: .30 carbine, 7.62, 7.62x33, assault rifle, ballistics, carbine, drop, Education, energy, history, M2, performance, personal defense weapon, rifle, second world war, us carbine m1 .30 cal, velocity, world war 2, world war ii, ww2, wwII, Left to right: .351 WSL, .30 M1 Carbine, .45 ACP, 5.7x28mm SS190, 5.56x45mm M193. I have one, of course, and it is fun to shoot, but I would never use it on a serious big-game hunt. "[8], U.S. Army specifications for the new cartridge mandated the caliber to be greater than .27, with an effective range of 300 yards or more, and a midrange trajectory ordinate of 18 inches (460mm) or less at 300 yards. [6] But for the handloader who has taken the time to replace the recoil spring and buffer in the Winchester Model 1907, the .351 SL can be loaded to its original velocities. in the Big Bore Model 94. And the Winner Is 30 Carbine vs 5.56 - Military Cartridge Comparison by Ammo.com Most commercially available loads for the .351 SL launched a 180 grain .351 caliber bullet at between 1,850 and 1,925 fps from a 20-inch barrel, yielding identical muzzle energy to the .30-30 when fired from a 20-inch barrel (rather than a manufacturer's long test barrel). It was introduced in the bolt-action Model 70 in which it was trustworthy, but boring. This 170-grain .30-30, for instance, drops 7.7 inches at 200 yards and 26.6 inches at 300 yards. The .351 Winchester Self-Loading (also called .351 SL or .351 WSL) is an American rifle cartridge designed in 1906. Winchester - Model 70, Target Model, .243 Winchester, 26" barrel. 300 blackout. Apr 21, 2013. appearance wise, i am partial to the Winchester M94. Winchester 351 Self-Loading: Truly Amazing! The competition in this category is just as close as ballistics, but right now, better availability gives the edge to the .350 Legend. What's Going On With .350 Legend? - The Truth About Guns . This is a bolt action rifle with a 5round internal magazine and sports a 22 blued steel barrel with visible rif WINCHESTER 06 22 S,L,LR. That is to say, .30 M1 Carbine bullets travel 2.3 times the speed of a 737 airplane at cruising speed, while .30-30 Winchester bullets travel 2.7 times that same speed. It has never failed me. 351 winchester vs 35 remingtonchannel 13 weather girl pregnant; 351 winchester vs 35 remingtonphiladelphia inmate mugshots; 351 winchester vs 35 remingtonhanalei hat company; 351 winchester vs 35 remingtonpan peninsula canary wharf service charge 351 winchester vs 35 remington. You will never get the recoil spring back in it. I would hold out for the 30 M1 CB unless i was just buying the Winchester for hunting or collecting . Mag.-all with a bigger, heavier bullet that will punch a bigger hole and penetrate deeper. Buy 3, however, or any 3 non gun non ammo items, and shipping is Free on the entire order. The U.S. Caliber .30 Carbines - Trigger Housing Group The .30-30 Winchester and .35 Remington won't break any speed recordsthere's no doubt about that. with a similar 180-grain bullet. Sell your 351 winchester for FREE today on GunsAmerica! Head to Head: 350 Legend vs. .35 Remington - An Official Journal Of The NRA Don't own one, shot one quite a lot back in the day when a kinsman had one. 351 winchester vs 35 remington - look.perfil.com Mag. Specifically, they had a significant problem developing a caliber powerful enough to be suitable for big game, yet usable in the 1903 type blowback autoloading action. These seemingly small differences added up to a significant . Jim in Idaho #7914589 07/19/13. I own several rifles in this cartridge and all my .35 Whelen rifles are accurate. On those gray, moody November days when I am feeling blue I take my Remington Model 141 pump-action rifle in .35 Rem. Perhaps the most notablecharacteristic of the Model 1903 rifle and its later larger brothers was its blowback action. By comparison, the .30-06 M2 cartridge for M1 Garand rifle fired a ball bullet weighing 152 grains (9.8 g) at a muzzle velocity of 2,805ft/s (855m/s) and 2,655ftlbf (3,600 joules) of muzzle energy. Hornady Critical Defense: 1990 fps. In the years since, the .35 Rem. These ballistics were far better than the .351 WSL and even put it slightly above the .35 Remington in terms of kinetic energy. With a 200-grain bullet the .35 Whelen actually shoots a bit flatter than the .30-06 Sprg.
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351 winchester vs 30 carbine